Interview

A Timeless Way of Being

Conversation with Kiyomoto Ogasawara - 32nd generation successor of Ogasawara-ryu.

"Tradition is not fixed—it flows."

For Kiyomoto Ogasawara, the old ways do not fade—they find new forms.

As the 32nd-generation successor of Ogasawara-ryu—a traditional school of martial arts, etiquette, and horseback archery established in the Kamakura period to train and guide the conduct of samurai—he inhabits a world where movement is prayer, etiquette is training, and discipline is a quiet form of care.

With a PhD in neuroscience and an active career in cancer research, he also freely and successfully moves in the realm of modern science, bridging two seemingly distant worlds with uncommon grace.

In a time when speed is worshipped and surface often overshadows substance, Ogasawara san reminds us that presence is power. Whether drawing a bow from horseback or standing from a chair, his practice is one of refinement—not of performance, but of essence.

We sit down with Ogasawara san as he speaks not only of training and lineage, but of balance, resilience, and self-understanding. What emerges is not just a philosophy of martial arts, but a way of being—attentive, grounded, and quietly powerful. Qualities that are essential to successfully navigate today’s world.

Through his words and insights, we remember that tradition is not fixed—it flows from a timeless center.

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Moving from a Timeless Center

What does it mean to be a samurai in today’s world?

It’s a tough question. The samurai class existed for about 700 years, and they built a way of life that was based on life-and-death situations. Over time, their skills and traditions were refined and passed down from person to person.

Today, we have AI, instant access to global information, and an overwhelming amount of knowledge at our fingertips. But the essence of what the samurai developed wasn’t just knowledge—it was movement, action.

A lot of people today have intellectual knowledge, but fewer people cultivate the knowledge of action—the ability to move and behave with skill and presence. I think this is something martial artists and practitioners of traditional arts can still pass on.

The Way of the Warrior

What would you say is the essential value of the way of the samurai (or Ogasawara-ryu) for people in contemporary society?

It is often said there are two parts to the way of the warrior: spirituality and physicality. 

On the spirituality side, our societies have become overly competitive. Comparing yourself to others is a common occurrence. As a result, people are becoming emotionally exhausted. 

A samurai’s profession is to fight. Only responding to your opponent is a sure way to lose in battle. Rather having a strong belief in oneself and drawing your opponent into your rhythm was important. The same goes for everyday life in modern times. Being your own person while having the flexibility to deal with others is important, and something that can be learned through Ogasawara-Ryu.

In terms of physicality, our lives have become far too convenient these days and in response to that we do not use our bodies as much. However throughout your life you need at the very least a base-level of strength to function. Therefore I think it is very important to train your strength in your day to day life. Ogasawara-Ryu teaches you how to use your body in daily situations so you can maintain a healthy body without necessarily going to the gym.

When training, both mentally and physically, things can get really tough. But if you let yourself slack off just because you’re tired or because it’s hard, in a real battle, that could mean death—or at the very least, defeat. With horseback archery (yabusame), you’re working with a horse. Even if you’re exhausted, the horse doesn’t adjust for you. That’s why you need the mental and physical strength to perform consistently, no matter the situation.

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Staying True to One’s Self

How did your upbringing and family lineage shape you into who you are now and how you see the world?

I come from an 830-year old family lineage called Ogasawara-Ryu. What we teach here is extremely simple – that is, how to move with as much efficiency as possible, and how to act in a well-reasoned manner.

In today’s world I feel that many things are unnecessarily over-emphasized. However the ways I have been taught to live: simply and rationally, have deeply impacted the way I live my life. 

Also, rather than constantly bending to adjust to other people, Ogasawara-Ryu teaches one to have a strong sense of self, which helps to stay true to one’s self while being able to accommodate others. This upbringing has helped me maintain a level head while working with other people.

When did you begin training in Ogasawara-ryu? 

I began training when I was three years old, and commenced more serious training when I was five. 

Ogasawara-Ryu teaches three things: etiquette (Reihou), Archery and Horseback Archery. Reihou is the training of one’s comportment by being mindful through everyday things.

On the other hand, there are not so many Archery Dojos like this one here, so I would practice once a week. Similarly, there are not so many places to practice horseback archery, so we would practice once or twice a week on a wooden horse like the ones at this dojo.

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An Offering to the Gods 

When was your first Yabusame (horse-back archery) ceremony?

My first Yabusame appearance was when I was 5, however at that age I was not required to draw a bowstring, simply just ride the horse. My first time drawing a bow on horseback was at 10 years of age. 

Could you share what you experience in your body-mind before, during and after this special ritual?

When I was a child, in other words still a student, I was nervous when it came to performing archery on horseback.  However, one time I reflected on why I became nervous during this event, and I wondered if it was because there were going to be many people watching me. 

Yabusame is originally not a performance for entertaining people, rather it is done as an offering to the gods. It is for the gods to watch. So I realized the idea of being nervous because people were watching was a mistaken one, and this way of thinking helped me draw out the results from my hard training.

Please tell me more about Reihou?

Etiquette, or Reihou, is the samurai’s practice of daily life, in other words, manners. In everyday actions such as eating, sitting and standing, it is the practice of using one’s body with economy and efficiency.

For example, when you are moving to sit or stand, most times you would tilt your upper body forward to perform these actions. However, keeping your back straight to sit and stand is something that we practice.

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Embodying True Mastery

What is the ultimate goal of your practice?

There’s a phrase written on the scroll behind me: 進退中度 (Shintai Chūdo). It means that in everything, there is a “just right” position or balance.

For example, if you’re on an empty train and you see someone you know, you’ll probably sit near them. But if they’re a stranger, you might sit farther away. The same situation, but depending on the context, your behavior changes.

This idea applies to everything—finding the right balance in every situation is key.

There’s another phrase: 無職無敬 (Mushoku Mukei). Sometimes, you’ll see someone who’s really skilled, but you can’t quite explain why—they just have this effortless, natural way of doing things. That’s true mastery. It’s not about showing off or proving how good you are. It’s about embodying a skill so deeply that it naturally comes across in how you move and carry yourself.

What qualities of mind, heart and spirit become embodied through the practice of Ogasawara-ryu?

When people get tired, they tend to act differently to usual. 

To put it bluntly it comes from a weakness in spirit. No matter what the situation, being able to have a consistent comportment and behaviour is something one should strive to learn. 

This is a society in which we constantly compare ourselves to others, whether it be in achievement, grades or recognition. Rather than that, having a firm grounding, knowing who you are while remaining open to other people is something we could all learn. Always reacting and adjusting to other people is a sure way to exhaustion. 

Knowing oneself provides you with a guiding standard from which you can understand others.

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Grasping the Essence of Things

How do you cultivate those qualities?

No matter what we try, our focus tends to always be on the results. And so when we try to work on our mistakes, we fix the most obvious, easiest things that bring results. In reality there are usually some deeper, more fundamental issues that need work in order to progress.

For example we live in a society in which there are many rules. There was a reason for those rules existing, however as time goes on the reason becomes forgotten and we are just left with rules without understanding why they exist. 

The same goes for personal mistakes. If something goes wrong and you only fix the obvious, surface-level issue, you’re not really solving the root problem. Instead, when you fail at something, you should take the time to figure out the real cause and address that. If you keep doing this, you’ll develop the ability to see beyond the immediate problem and focus on what really matters.

You have a background in neuroscience. How do science and traditional martial arts connect?

I have a PhD in neuroscience and used to do research in that field. Now, I work in the pharmaceutical industry, developing cancer treatments.

At first glance, science and traditional arts might seem unrelated, but they share the same foundation: understanding the core truth of something. Science is about uncovering the fundamental principles behind phenomena. In the same way, martial arts—especially the techniques we practice—are about deeply understanding movement, the body, and interactions with others.

So in both fields, the key is to see past the surface and grasp the deeper essence of things. 

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Performing at Your Best

Have there been times when being a samurai helped you overcome challenges in life?

Yes, absolutely.

Like I mentioned earlier, samurai training emphasizes performing at your best, no matter the circumstances—whether you’re exhausted, overwhelmed, or facing difficulties.

In life, we all go through tough times. And when you’re struggling, it’s easy to make mistakes. But through discipline and training, you learn to stay steady and push through without letting challenges shake you too much.

That mindset has definitely helped me in many situations.

What do you think are some of the biggest challenges in modern society?

This isn’t just a Japan-specific issue, but I think mental health struggles have become more common. A big reason for that is that people are always measuring themselves against others. One challenge is learning to focus less on external comparisons.

Another issue is wastefulness. With capitalism and mass production, people don’t value things as much. But Japan, as an island nation with limited resources, historically placed great importance on taking care of things—repairing, reusing, and making do with what was available.

Japan has always been a diverse society in its own way, too. Even within this small country, there are countless dialects and different ways of life. People from different backgrounds coexisted and found ways to live together harmoniously. Many of today’s social problems didn’t exist back then, so I think there’s a lot we can learn from those past values.

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Understanding Your Own Tendencies

When do you feel the beauty of life?

That’s a hard one…I think it’s when something is achieved—not alone, but through the cooperation of many people.

For example, with our yabusame ceremonies, it’s never just one person’s effort. It’s not even just our school (Ogasawara-ryu). It’s only possible thanks to the support of the shrine, the community, and many others working together.

When I see people come together like that to accomplish something meaningful, I really feel the beauty in it.

Do you have any practical advice from Ogasawara-ryu that people can apply in their daily lives?

Yes, two things.

First, try to move as efficiently as possible—without unnecessary motions. For example, when you stand up from a chair, technically, all you need to do is extend your legs. But many people instinctively lean forward first. That forward motion is actually unnecessary.

If you focus on only using the muscles you truly need, you’ll naturally build strength in the right areas. It’s a simple way to train your body in everyday life.

Second, learn to understand your own tendencies.

For example, how do you behave when you’re tired? If you know that about yourself, you can take steps to compensate. Self-awareness allows you to maintain consistency in your actions and mindset.

If you start with those two things, I think you’ll find them useful in both daily life and work.

What inspires you?

Honestly, it’s often in moments of practice—when I’m drawing a bow, or even just doing basic training.

When you’re stuck in thought, sometimes new ideas don’t come easily. But when you completely immerse yourself in a physical activity, with no distractions, that’s often when inspiration strikes.

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Interview: Irwin Wong
Editors: Laurens van Aarle & Inez Westerhausen
Video & photography: Irwin Wong

A deep bow of gratitude to Kiyomoto Ogasawara and Ogasawara-ryu.

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